[Plantsci] Emailing: Sander 'What kind of state do you want to live in'

Tue Nov 1 06:57:15 MST 2011

Sander: 'What kind of state do you want to live in?'  <http://azstarnet.com/> 

Sander: 'What kind of state do you want to live in?' 

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 <http://azstarnet.com/photo/article_4e598b24-6aa7-11e0-8ae9-001cc4c03286.html> Description: buy this photoARIZONA DAILY STAR 

Eugene G. Sander

University of Arizona President Eugene G. Sander recently met with the Star's editorial board in a wide-ranging discussion.

Sander was scheduled to retire last July as vice provost and dean of the College of Agriculture and Life Science. Instead, he agreed to become president and remain until the Board of Regents hires a replacement. A new leader is expected to be identified by March.

What follows are excerpts of our conversation with Sander.

On the UA's long reach:

We've had an outstanding freshman class that's joined us. That class is probably the most diverse class that we've ever had - the highest SATs and highest GPAs that we've ever had.

I think that many times when I am in Washington, when I am elsewhere, we are very well recognized, at least nationally and internationally, for the work that we do.

The other thing that I think that perhaps I understand better than others, and that is we are all over the state of Arizona. You can go to any county in this state and run into somebody from the University of Arizona.

As a matter of fact, we jokingly talk about our 4-H youth development program as the first class that you will take at the University of Arizona. You may be a 9-year-old, but you are still interacting with faculty that work for us, who have appointments here at the university, tenure continuing status, the whole enchilada.

On the UA budget and state funding:

The one thing I should tell you in the spirit of complete disclosure - you don't take $182 million out of a university (budget) without showing a little wear and tear around the edges.

If I had to say the thing that I am a bit worried about, and that is we have moved to a new funding model and I think all universities across the country are moving to a new funding model, which will be more dependent upon the customer, and the student tuition, I think, will continue to be a factor for us. I don't see it going back down.

I do worry about the issues of access and worry that the further we get up on this curve, the more difficult it's going to be able to maintain access if we have to raise tuition rates much higher.

On the other hand, my view on that matter is that if you aren't in a position where your university can award quality degrees, then you're probably better off not awarding them.

On the student experience:

We're a very rich university in terms of the student experience. The big difference is that when you have a student body of 39,000, the students who are going to take something away from that university are the ones that are proactive, that reach out and try to take advantage of it. If you want to be bar-coded and processed, well, big universities can do that.

If, on the other hand, you want to reach out and take advantage of the richness of that place, you can really, really do some very, very exceptional things.

All you have to do is look at the list of things that are going on every day on campus. And if you were to do two of those a week I would argue that you would be well ahead of the average student, who perhaps doesn't take advantage of essentially what we offer.

On how to keep students in school and engaged

[By doing] lots of advising as best as we possibly can. Huge issue for us. Really it is. If you had turned me loose when I was 18 with this online (course) stuff I would have been dead in the water. I was just getting used to television.

Star: Well some of the students say with online classes, they feel like why do I even have to show up; it's all online?

Sander: Well, the truth of the matter is, I suppose in certain cases, they could.

On the other hand at some point in time they're going to need a little bit more than a big thumb to sort of figure out how to get through this university. There's a maturation process that occurs when you are getting a college education, as well.

So again, and there's where we have to sort of make sure that there's that sort of human relationship that does continue to, you know, is promoted even though it might initially be with a really high quality TA and later on with a professor. There has to be more than just looking at a Google box. Otherwise, you are right - stay home and learn how to do it. The University of Phoenix does this all the time.

On students not ready for college-level work

I'll be perfectly honest with you: We don't deal with a really well-prepared student. Close to half of our kids have to go back and take remedial math. It's ridiculous.

Star: How does that square with having the highest-ever SAT scores among the freshmen?

Sander: I'd like to know the answer to that myself. I think there is too much learning geared to passing tests. Multiple guess it's called, and they guess real well.

On the future of UA budgets and tuition

I think Arizonans have got to decide what kind of a state you want to live in, and part of that is going to be the issue of supporting K-12 and higher education.

Can I firmly state that indeed we won't have to raise tuition if they were to continue to cut us again? My guess is that if that were to happen there would be a serious, serious discussion about … releasing us from some of the so-called state regulations that we have to have in order to do business in this state.

Another thing is that if we were free of state regulation, I think would make a bit of a difference in terms of how flexibly we could operate. So I think there would be that discussion before we would start cranking the (tuition) levels up again, because again we are getting to the point where, at least I personally begin to worry about access.

Let me tell you one thing. We currently reinvest 40 percent of our tuition back into student financial aid. The Board of Regents mandates that we put 17 percent.

On the connection between education and prosperity

A third of the registered voters in this state are independents, and yet they don't seem to be really well represented in terms of the political process.

I wonder when indeed those people will speak and talk about things that should be important to a state, like K-12 and a few other things. Right now about the only thing you hear about, read about, listen to are sort of way over here and way over there. And I think the same thing holds at the federal level.

And I wonder when people who call themselves a moderate Republican or a moderate Democrat, or whatever - sort of a middle-of-the-road person - are going to speak to those issues.

We are about to let a 1-cent sales tax expire. It'll cost us I forget how many millions - it's a chunk, OK? We know that the governor won't ask that it be put back on the ballot. We know darn well the Legislature won't. Well, who will?

The people in K-12 made that happen before. Surely wasn't higher ed. We don't carry much of a stick compared to the K-12 constituency.

But I need to tell you that in 2014, without that being reauthorized, renewed, or something happening to it, there would be a big chunk of money that will not be available for much of anything. Particularly the fact that at the same time there would be a cut in taxes for the business community.

And the questions is then how do you fund K-12, how do you make up the remainder in terms of higher ed, how do you do welfare programs and a whole bunch of stuff that I think many people think are reasonably important to the state?

How do you do that?

That's why I ask, "What kind of state do you want to live in?" We all have to answer that question, don't we?

On students as "customers"

Of course the ideal education, I suppose, is Socrates sitting on one end of a log and a student sitting on the other. We no longer have the luxury of being able to do that, and so this word "customer" is sort of a broad term that maybe I use too often.

I have had some faculty back in my dean days sort of chastise me for this where they wish to call their students their junior colleagues. Well, I don't know. That's nifty.

On the other hand, having been a parent of two kids at that university I kind of like that idea of the expectation of the customer - having something that is deliverable at the end of the four- or five-year experience, whatever it might be.

I think that the current environment that we find ourselves in, and with people sort of believing that we spend our money and we expect something in return from it, that the term has some utility, although perhaps not quite as much as you would have if I'm buying a widget from Walmart.

There's an expectation, I think a growing expectation, that a young person walking out the door - educated young person - walking out the door from a major university, then the next question you might ask, "Well are they really educated to be able to do something in the workforce and start paying taxes?"

Are we preparing enough students, enough people to actually go into the workforce and go into work? That's where you are beginning to get close to this business of training versus education.

I am of the opinion that probably in 2011 in the current climate, we are going to have to take a little bit more of a look at this business about what does an electrical engineering firm want in terms of an electrical engineer? What does a biotech company want in terms of a four-year degree in molecular biology, let's say, so they can go to work? So I think we need to pay a little bit more attention to that.

On research and teaching

This country made a decision a whole bunch of years ago that our universities were going to be a major place that cutting-edge basic research was going to be done.

So the question is whether or not lowering this (university research) overhead is worthy of having your kids taking courses from the club pros as opposed to Arnie Palmer. That's the analogy that I use.

Sometimes the club pro teaches better than Arnie Palmer does. So I don't know; it all depends.

The thing we are doing is beginning to differentiate and take a take a look and make decisions.

There are certain areas, perhaps in our university, that do not have to be necessarily the ones who are pushing back the frontiers of a particular discipline. What we are doing is essentially more in the teaching realm as opposed to departments where we really are pushing a research agenda, lower teaching loads, more research, et cetera.

And the ones where we are not pushing the agenda - we have higher teaching loads, et cetera.

And those are decisions that all the major universities across the country are beginning to come to grips with, whether they are admitting it or not, we're doing it.

Star: What is the process at the university to make those decisions?

Sander: I think a lot depends on what the national needs are. We have a need for engineers, we have a need for scientists, we have a need for mathematicians.

You have to be pretty careful as you make decisions like that at a major university about what you're going to emphasize. Because what's important today can be an absolute dud 10 to 20 years from now. I've actually done some of that having been a dean for 20 years. It isn't the easiest thing in the world to predict.

On the UA's space connection

Let's talk about what I define as big-time science. You want to talk about JPL (Jet Propulsion Laboratory). I think in this day and age, we do not have - even considering the excellence in the department of lunar and planetary science - all the necessary people to be able to man one of those huge projects by ourselves. No university does. JPL doesn't either or they wouldn't be dealing with us. Cal Tech doesn't or they wouldn't be dealing with us. That's the nature of big-time science - in other words, partnerships.

The same thing holds in the medical fields, as well. There has to be more partnership back and forth between institutions or we aren't going to make (progress). The problems are so tough and hard to come to grips with.

On plain speaking and looking forward

I'm not interested in a five-year contract. I'm 76 years old, and my reputation is one for sort of being as candid as I possibly can without trying to insult anybody, which I am not trying to do.

But that's one of the reasons I wouldn't take the job as long as they were going to hang this "interim" in front of the title. I said, I don't need that kind of grief. Just give me the job and if you don't like what I'm doing I'll be glad to be out of there just as quick as I can.

My goal in this next year is to make sure that we've got an environment over at the university that a really outstanding new leader is going to be eager to come on board.

I don't think that there's anything I've said today or probably would ever say in the future that isn't pretty self-evident to people that I respect and I think probably respect me.

Let's not kid ourselves. I'm the 20th president of that university, and I will be there until they get a new one. And no, I am not interested in being a candidate. I think that somebody that comes in has got to be able to accept that job for at least five years.

Well, do the math. You know how old I'll be in five years and I promised Mrs. Sander I'm not going to die at my desk.

Star: Do you have any candid observations on the 21st president? Should that person come from academia, politics or the corporate world?

Sander: That person should be a leader. The person ought to be a leader first and foremost.

When they walk in that door you want to know damn well that the president of the University of Arizona is in the room.

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Posted in Opinion <http://azstarnet.com/news/opinion>  on Sunday, October 30, 2011 12:00 am 

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