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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Good overview of transfer information from a Pima advisor.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> upac-request@list.arizona.edu [mailto:upac-request@list.arizona.edu] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Beaudrie, Alan C - (abeaudri)<br><b>Sent:</b> Wednesday, January 23, 2013 8:53 AM<br><b>To:</b> UPAC@list.arizona.edu<br><b>Cc:</b> Tearne, Michael<br><b>Subject:</b> [UPAC] FW: Advising Symposium Thanks and Questions - Answer from a Pima Student Services Coordinator<o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#C00000'>Hello All,<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#C00000'>Ann Samuelson sent out an email to the UPAC listserv as a follow up to the symposium with questions. I contacted Michael Tearne, former UA advisor and current Pima Student Services Coordinator to help answer her questions.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#C00000'>He gave me permission to share this with the UPAC listserv.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#C00000'>Thank you Michael, and great questions Ann! You may want to read Ann’s email first (on the bottom) and then come back to read Michael’s response.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:#C00000'>Alan<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The AGEC is a certificate program. It is eligible for financial aid. Not all certificate programs are eligible for financial aid though. That might be where the confusion is coming from.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>A student who finishes a certificate is considered a Pima graduate and is invited to graduation. I don’t know how Provosts define “completion,” but I would call completing an AGEC as “completing.”</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>There are three AGECs that correspond directly to our three <u>basic</u> transfer associate’s degrees (there are actually more than three but we don’t need to get more complicated):</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>AGEC-A is 35 of the 60 credits required for a liberal arts (ALA) degree.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>AGEC-B is 35 of the 60 credits required for an associate’s of business (ABUS) degree.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>AGEC-S is 35 of the 60 credits required for an associate’s of science (AS) degree.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>The AGEC represents an articulation agreement between all of the community colleges in Arizona with all of our state universities. If a student completes the AGEC certificate, it is guaranteed to transfer to any of the state community colleges and satisfy the lower-level, general education requirements (not including second language) at that institution for the related majors. </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>For example, the AGEC-A will take care of all of the tier I and tier II requirements for the UA BA in Psyc. However, if a student wants a Business degree, they would need to complete the AGEC-B, for Chemistry, the AGEC-S.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Why would a Pima advisor suggest the associate’s degree over the AGEC? For just the reason that Ann mentioned. They can take advantage of our lower tuition rate for up to 64 transferrable units.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>All of the units in a transfer degree must be transferrable in order to fulfill the degree requirements. Ideally, then, the 25-29 units that a student completes in addition to the 35 AGEC units are specific to their major. For example, the student who is interested in a Psyc BA completes the AGEC-A, takes four semesters of second language, PSY 101, 230 and 289.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>However, it’s never that simple. Let’s take the more narrow, specific view now.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>For one thing, some UA majors like some Sciences recommend our students only complete their AGEC, not the associate’s degree, and then transfer. The reason being that students who transfer with all of their lower level education complete end up with schedules that are either really intense with upper-division core courses or are unable to construct full time schedules because of rigid prerequisite sequencing. In fact, if I understand correctly, Rene in Journalism recommends students not complete the liberal arts degree but only the AGEC-A because of prerequisite sequencing for her major. It doesn’t make sense for a journalism student to transfer 64 units when they are going to be at the UA for three years in a structured program anyway.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Another thing that makes this more complicated is the vast number of students here at Pima who have no idea what they want to do. This is one of our biggest challenges and one that we are giving more and more discussion to. If students are transferring with a bunch of useless courses it may be because they have been bouncing around majors or are just unfocused. We are always working on that one.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>There’s also all of the developmental education courses many Pima students have to take that up the number of units they complete. Ann, however, is probably not referring to those in her email. I don’t think, although I could be wrong, that those are showing up at all in the UA system because they don’t transfer.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>As I know you know, there is a huge amount of information and caveats our academic advisors are responsible for. The more we collaborate with our UA colleagues the better we will be able to help our students get the most out of their education. That’ why this discussion is so important.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I often refer students who know what they want to study and know they want to go to the UA to make contact with their UA advisor. They get mixed receptions.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Furthermore, some UA programs have great information for prospective transfer students on their website or offer information sessions on a regular basis. Others offer very little. The more we can support our transfer students as a team, the better for everyone, especially our students.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I hope that clears things up. Please let me know if you have other questions.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Take care of yourself!</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Michael</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Michael J. Tearne</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Student Services Coordinator</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Pima Community College, Desert Vista Campus</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>mtearne @pima.edu</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>(520)206-5156</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Arial Unicode MS","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>"The universe is wider than our views of it." - Henry David Thoreau</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div style='border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in'><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>From: </span></b><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'><Samuelson>, Ann Samuelson <<a href="mailto:anns@email.arizona.edu" target="_blank">anns@email.arizona.edu</a>><br><b>Date: </b>Wednesday, December 19, 2012 9:09 AM<br><b>To: </b>"<a href="mailto:upac-request@list.arizona.edu" target="_blank">upac-request@list.arizona.edu</a>" <<a href="mailto:upac-request@list.arizona.edu" target="_blank">upac-request@list.arizona.edu</a>><br><b>Subject: </b>Advising Symposium Thanks and Questions</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Hi. I wanted to thank everyone who worked on organizing the symposium or volunteer there yesterday — it was really great and I think I learned a lot. </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>The most interesting part to me was the presentations by the Provosts. It raise more questions for me than answers, however. For those who were not there, the Provosts said that they were seeing a shift nationally in funding from focusing on counting the number of students attending school to focusing on the number of students who actually graduated from school — to "outcomes". I asked what an "outcome" was for the Community Colleges, because for many of us in the advising field an "outcome" for a community college student is not an Associates Degree, but is really an AGEC. Also, I mentioned that I've had students in my office complaining that the advisors a Pima insisted that they earn an Associates Degree and that they felt they had wasted time earning that degree when they could have just gone straight for an AGEC. The PCC Provost seemed to suggest that to them an "outcome" was definitely an Associates Degree but that they were talking about making the AGEC a certificate program(?). </span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>After the program concluded, a Pima advisor came up to me and said the reason Pima Advisors steer students towards an Associates Degree is that they are not eligible for financial aid if they just go for an AGEC. Does anyone know if this is true? It seems odd to me since the only purpose I know of for an AGEC is to allow students to transfer into a four-year program and continue a student's program until they get a four-year degree. Why would they not be allowed to use financial aid — since by default they must be going for a 4-year degree? We don't exclude our students from the first year or two of financial aid. If it is true that Pima students must be working towards a degree to get financial aid, is there anyway to change it so students don't have to go for an Associates Degree if they want to transfer?</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>I was reviewing the requirements for an AGEC this morning and realized that it only takes 35 credits to earn an AGEC — I rarely have students who transfer from a Community College with an AGEC who have earned less than 50 credits. It seems kind of odd to me that an AGEC is not constructed in such as way as to make an Associates Degree and an AGEC equivalent — a liberal arts or science Associates degree. In thinking about it, having it set at 35 credits is something of a mixed bag, because if a student earns only 35 credits and transfers here, they lose the tuition cost that they are saving by taking more credits at Pima instead of here because they then have to pay for a (potentially extra) 29 credits here, rather than at Pima (64 max credits at CC –35 AGEC credits)— so maybe encouraging them to stay at Pima is a good thing?</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>I'm pretty naïve about all this, so if you have more information and can shed some light on why the AGEC and Associates relationship is constructed as it is and (if it's true) why CC students can't get financial aid for an AGEC, I'd be really interested.</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:10.5pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:black'>Best, Ann</span><span style='color:black'><o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Ann Samuelson, M.A, Anthropology<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Academic Advisor<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>School of Anthropology, UA<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Haury Anthropology Building<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>PO Box 210030<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>Tucson, AZ 85721-0030<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>(520) 626-6027 <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'><a href="mailto:anns@email.arizona.edu" target="_blank"><span style='color:purple'>anns@email.arizona.edu</span></a><o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'>CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information contained in this e-mail is privileged and confidential, and is intended only for the use of the individual or entity named above. If you are not the intended recipient, you are notified that any disclosure, copying, distribution, electronic storage or use of this communication is prohibited. If you received this communication in error, please notify us immediately by e-mail, attaching the original message, and delete the original message from your computer and any network to which your computer is connected.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='color:black'> <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></body></html>